Here's a question

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This could potentially be embarassing, especially if i get the answer i dont want...

When i come home from work, alfie approaches me with his head down and his tail wagging, which, according to all the alpha dog stuff ive been reading, means he is accepting his place in the pecking order..

however, i have a friend, who is around the house often.

when alfie sees him he goes daft, for want of a better term, his tail is wagging, he is excited, sometimes he pees with excitement.

ive noticed a few small things, like when my friend watches tv, alfie will go over and lie beside him, and just things like this...

i know this probably sounds like jealousy, and it probably is a little, but what im wondering is, is this anything i should be concerned about? is there any reason for this?
It sounds to me like you are the Alpha, and your friend is the packmate.

If he's chumming around with him, it sounds more like peers. That's how my dogs act with my (adult) children.

(Hope this is the answer you wanted, cuz it's the only one I have Wink )
I kinda thought that might be the case..

is there a way to be the alpha and a friend?

im thinking the answer could be no.

at least its not that he doesnt like me Smile

thanks a lot.
Richy, not only does he like you, he ***respects*** you!

Yes, you can be friends. Play with him and he'll figure it out, but don't let him get the best of you!

How old is your pup?
Very Happy This thread totally reminds me of an advice column! Laughing

Richy wrote:
is there a way to be the alpha and a friend?

im thinking the answer could be no.

at least its not that he doesnt like me Smile

thanks a lot.


I am not the alpha of a dog, because I am not a dog. Only dogs can be alpha to other dogs. It is species-specific. Just like I don't sniff thier butts. They know we are not dogs.

Personally I would be worried if my dog came to me with his head down, and all submissive-like. I like my dogs to feel confident and happy when they greet me, with their heads up.

But then I don't like them to see me as a boss, but rather I like us to be a "team". If I were you I wouldn't read or belive anything about that whole "alpha" business. It is nice for people to believe and work with, but the dogs don't relate to it the same way. It has actually been very bad for dogs, and has ruined many a dog-human relationship.

But if people like that kind of relationship...It is just not for me.
I have to agree with Nicole on this one.
Sorry....I don't. Yes my dogs know I'm a human and not a dog. But they also know, first and foremost I am the leader.

I believe they think regardless of the species, if we live together, in their wee minds, we are a pack.

Yes, they know the kids are human and not other dogs. But they also know they are on the same level with them (when it comes to playing) and so they play a bit crazier then they ever would with me.

They greet me with respect...no, they are not frighted of me. But they do not jump and goes insane. When we first got Keira (who is a rescue) she used to pee when I came home. But with trust, and me calming down the homecoming, she no longer does that. No, she's not scared, she just pleased I'm home and knows she will get a kiss very soon...sometime on the top of her head, which she will lower to receive her kissy.

I am no expert, that is for sure, but that is how it is in our house, and that is how I read the situation.
My feeling is, that dogs, just like people, have different and often rather complex relationships with each other person or dog in their lives. One person might represent Love/security/respect, while another is all about FUN!!!!

My boy Bert loves both me and my husband, but his reaction to his Grandpa (my FIL) is one of over-the-top joy. I have no idea why, since they've only met a few times, but Bert just seems to sense that JB is somebody wonderful. hearts My old boy Spencer's favorite non-family member was a pal of my assistant who was always ready to drop down on the floor and give belly rubs Laughing . When my trainer comes over, my dogs practically sit up and salute! YES MA'AM! Wink

Richy...I think the fact that Alphie loves your friend, means that you have good taste in friends! Wink

ravenmoonart wrote:

Richy...I think the fact that Alphie loves your friend, means that you have good taste in friends! Wink



Here, here! Well said
ClappingPurple
I'm ignored when friends come over, the sheepie girls are totally all over them. It is a change for them, other people woo hoo, let's flop all over them, gotta luv me, here I am, hey you, it's me your sheepie buddy.

Wether the friends like it or not, bad luck they have no choice in the matter and it gives me a break too. Laughing

Oooooh someone else WOO HOO, lick, slurp and flop Rolling Eyes Laughing
Thats funny my dogs are also all over my husband and my mil when shamu sees her she crys and whines...she waits until my mil sits down and then puts her two paws around her neck and licks away. She does't do this with me or my mom. I was kind jealous too Embarassed I usually just get her butt when I sit down Shocked

Bosley's mom wrote:

Richy wrote:
is there a way to be the alpha and a friend?

im thinking the answer could be no.

at least its not that he doesnt like me Smile

thanks a lot.


I am not the alpha of a dog, because I am not a dog. Only dogs can be alpha to other dogs. It is species-specific. Just like I don't sniff thier butts. They know we are not dogs.

Personally I would be worried if my dog came to me with his head down, and all submissive-like. I like my dogs to feel confident and happy when they greet me, with their heads up.

But then I don't like them to see me as a boss, but rather I like us to be a "team". If I were you I wouldn't read or belive anything about that whole "alpha" business. It is nice for people to believe and work with, but the dogs don't relate to it the same way. It has actually been very bad for dogs, and has ruined many a dog-human relationship.

But if people like that kind of relationship...It is just not for me.


I am getting more than a little tired of reading your replies, since nothing I, or anyone else does, is ever correct in your eyes.

I'm sorry that I've tried to read up on things to give Alfie the best life I can. I took it on the chin when you said that hitting his nose is wrong, well guess what, I've been doing it if Alfie wont take a telling, and it works... Hmm must be a reason that all my friends and family that have ever had dogs used this technique top great effect.. antiquated you say, well ever heard the sayings "the old ones are the best" and "if its not broken don't fix it"? I don't beat Alfie and I don't abuse him, but if will not behave and continuously defies me in a certain thing, then he gets a light hit on the nose, in much the same way that I would smack a kid.. but I guess you wouldn't do that either?!?!

All I want is for Alfie to have a good life, and to be well behaved, again in the same way I would if I had kids.. so far his behaviour is good. everyone that meets him, and my family who are with him a lot, think he has a great temperament. He gets well fed, has a nice home, nice toys, nice garden, and gets plenty of physical and mental exercise. But, he is learning that these things come at a price, ie good behaviour from him.

As for the alpha dog being nonsense, I don't believe YOU... I think that reading any articles on alpha behaviour, which incidentally tie in nicely with the NILF technique, a technique that you advocate, makes perfect sense... Yes, I'm sure Alfie is intelligent to know that I am not a dog, because i don't look or smell like one, but he does know that i am his master and the boss, and that's the way i want it.. Yes, I want us to be pals, but if I have a choice between Alfie being my friend and basically doing what he wants when he wants, or me being the boss and we can still have fun, then I know what I choose.

All the alpha dog thing really is anyway, if you bothered to read it is the NILF technique with further explanation.. For example, it goes some way to how a dog (a PACK ANIMAL) thinks about things, and how to use this way of thinking to get the results you're looking for, which for example could be him sitting for his dinner until you tell him to eat... this is an example which is well used in the NILF technique, however, all the alpha theory does is explains why this is important.

So, in conclusion, if all you can do is put me down for every single thing that I post, and tell me that I'm wrong (which I now take as you saying I'm a bad parent) then I'd rather you just refrained from replying to my posts.

I guess when Alfie is 13 and is complaining to his dog shrink that his dad messed him up by being strict then you can tell me I was a bad parent.

Richy wrote:
This could potentially be embarassing, especially if i get the answer i dont want...


I guess I misunderstood this to mean you were open to answers...both postive and and negative. You probably should have said " Don't tell me what I don't want to hear". Then I would not have responded at all.

I feel sorry for your dog.
I am open to answers positive and negative, however what I am opposed to is people judging me.

Your replies are not helpful in a sort of "I've been doing this a long time, and if you want help im happy to offer some"

Your replies however, smack of someone who is very pretentious.

In fact, I would go as far as to say, if you were a religious leader, you could easily start a war by forcing your opinions on people.

So, yes if you are capable of being constructive then I am happy to listen to your views, but, if you are going to be patronising and tell me I'm wrong at every turn, then no I would rather you didn't post.

And since you decided to get personal by your last line, and I'm not adult enough to ingnore it I will say this... Almost everyone else who has replied seems to agree with me, but it is no secret that your posts have gotten you into trouble before... That and the fact that you live alone with dogs would suggest that you get on with animals better than humans.. what does that tell you?

Everyone, I'm sorry for this.

I wont be retaliating any more, but saying "I feel sorry for your dog" is now to me exactly the same as saying "I feel sorry for your kids"
I feel sorry for dogs who get left in hot cars, are chained their whole lives, get beaten severely, are starved, do not get medical attention, do not have regular check-ups, do not have toys, do not get affection, get left behind in abandoned houses, who are never loved the way they deserve to be loved. Those are the dogs I feel sorry for. Personally I think ALL dogs that belong to the members of this forum are probably very well loved and cared for... dare I even say spoiled Smile
I, too, would find it hard to believe that anyone on this forum, who takes time to learn more about our breed and the well being of our dogs could ever have a dog to feel sorry for.

I think we all treat our dogs like the elite of the elite!
I don't want to add to an already tense-turning thread....just a couple of small comments...

Richy, just for the record, Nicole doesn't "live alone with dogs"...she has a husband, kids,etc Wink

I also think both of you are reading WAY more into this than necessary Shocked

*sigh* Rolling Eyes

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